how long did paul study under gamalielhow long did paul study under gamaliel
Polhil states that perhaps around the age of fourteen to sixteen Paul went to Jerusalem to study under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3), (30). Exactly what Issa p al Masih did about 500 years earlier! Note: ingrafted Gentiles were branches of the tree and not replacements of Israel of the entire tree (replacement theology). Perhaps on the basis of a preserved tradition that he oversaw the body of St. Stephen. Paul claims in Philippians 3 to be a Hebrew of the Hebrews, some people take that as a saying we spoke Hebrew at home, not Greek or Aramaic. He was a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. So approximately 1-2 years after the crucifixion and Resurrection. This also convinces me that even though it seems he split from Gamaliel, early on, that did not change him into something completely opposite. There are three things bearing on this subject among the incidental intimations which we have in respect to the early history of Saul, viz. You seem to want to impose your views of the modern church on ancient house churches. Are the lines differentiating Gamaliel/Hillel from Shammaite Pharisees sufficiently filled out by robust bodies of exhaustive casuistry? IMHO, Paul was not an eyewitness to the crucifixion. ), STEP 1) Paul said; I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man. [1 Timothy 1:13] (Response- Those were Sauls sins, before Jesus called him. (I know, captain obvious). On analogy to Supreme Court Justices dissenting in limited and specific cases (anomolies) as a dissenting minority against a majority with whom the dissent would normally agree? My buddy has a new friend from a Baptist background that seems really smart and good with words. Stop pitying yourself, you are not being persecuted. This article is the result of when you remove the culture/context of the scriptures, the Hebraics of the Brist Chadasha (Renewed Testament) and injecting the christian outlook that Shaul (Paul) divorced his Jewish roots. Finally in Troas, Paul received a vision of a man asking them to go into Macedonia (modern-day Greece). But let us not confuse the issue with facts. A generation before Christ there were two great rabbis, Hillel and Shammai. - Bit Chaser Mar 11 '17 at 7:32 The Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the New Testament (Acts 5:34; 22:3). I dont think breakthrough in our faith randomly happens. Acts recounts the times he faced persecution (13:45; 14:19) and risked his . Since the garage is smaller, we can finish that quicker. Even though Gamaliel was the one who stated in Acts 5:34-39 that if this Jesus movement were from God there would be no way to stop it, they should just let it run its course, Paul was still influenced heavily by the persecution mindset that the rest of the Sanhedrin had. Phillip, thank you. For example, But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified (1 Corinthians 9:27 ESV). In athletics and my walk with Christ, I must remain disciplined in all that I do. Somebody did the calculations of Paul's education, and said he basically had the equivalent of two Ph.D.'s by the time he was 21 years of age. I will say, The Jewish account maintains that he remained a Pharisee until his death makes perfect sense since we know that there were other Pharisees who were Christians in Acts 15, and Paul still claims to be a Pharisee when he testifies before the Sanhedrin in Acts 23:6. If he came to cancel the law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and following the laws passed by the Sanhedrin? I need to refine that. The later evidence of the Mishnah implies an Aramaic commentary on the Hebrew Bible, but that dates to AD 250. I got my Masters Degree at Dallas Theological Seminary. Listen to him! [Mark 9:7], The Apostle John recorded the testimony of John the Baptist: I have see and I testify that this is the Son of God. [John 1:34], In contrast, Hundreds of years later Muhammad came along and wrote: God has no son.. Definition of tentmaker 1 : one that makes tents. First, Gamaliel was one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. In regards to Gamaliel, based off of Acts 5:35-40, he seemed to be a wise teacher. 5:7) Paul takes a Nazarite vow, validate his claim that he doesnt teach against Torah and upholds it. You are extremely insulting to me when you ignore what was written and only hear what your own prejudice allows. he wouldn't just give it all up on a whim, especially not to be jailed, flogged, persecuted, and executed for it. He was a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. Acts 22:3 - "I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of Yeshua quotes many of them and in many cases agreed or corrected their rulings. Especially to a yeshiva student studying to be a Chazzan. There were several rebellions in Jerusalem regarding the building of gymnasiums. STEP 6) LOOP- REPEAT steps 1 through 5, until your dance partner gives up, the audience gets bored, or the music stops. With respect to Hellenism, Hillel was more open to Hellenism than Shammai and was therefore more open to cooperation with the Romans. Since Paul clearly gives his yeshiva and his lineage, it shows he wasnt a Christian before and after Damascus. Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. I think there is some sort of progression, however, in Pauls theology. This is what happens when you dont study near eastern culture and context before reading scripture. 1973 Inside the mind of a Jesus Person. Hillel, like Moses, died at the age of 120 and for the last 40 years of his life (c.30 BC-10 AD) he led the Sanhedrin, the ruling elders who determined on political and religious cases in Jerusalem. Completely different mindset in Jerusalem which forbade such things. ." b. I dont see specifically that Paul trained leaders of house churches to carry on the work after he left- but maybe Im missing something. I did not see this question before, sorry. But there is a notable difference in Paul from pre- to post-conversion. The reason why the Essenes left and went into the desert was because they believed the Pharisee were to lax in their laws and punishment in the Sanhedrin. Anyway, I should save a throne for him too.. When Hillel died, his son Simeon assumed his position, but Simeon died shortly after he took office. Tha A in TanAch. Indeed in this case Christian tradition cannot really be trusted, in my opinion. 4:2 Gamaliel forbade husbands from divorcing their wives without their knowledge. While this is a generalization, many of the rabbinic debates of the first century come down to the opinion of Hillel versus Shammai. This is exactly what I am talking about, I have regularly posted articles on this blog saying the earliest Christians were Jewish and I often say in classes (and I am sure I have said it someplace here) that the earliest Christian theology (either Jesus or Paul) was quite similar to the Pharisees. Paul is a master of both and since you do not understand oral law, its lead you to believe that Paul is a Shammite of all things. Then those who finished the garage can go help the others finish the house., One worker objected: But Boss Paul, those were not the owners instructions! For instance, Shammai believed the halachot they created that gentiles could never be saved or be in covenant and to eat with them was idolatry. Or is it possible that Paul privately harbored more overall agreement with Gamaliel/Hillel than with Shammaite Pharisees, and that Paul felt himself to be a lone dissenter in rare cases (Christians) against his former masters legal hermeneutics of mercy? Nicodemus (John 3:7-8) How many brothers did Jesus have? We need to get to work applying that paint to the garage and house as quick as we can. You have a rather closed worldview and are blind to what I have said. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. N. T. Wright describes the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah, as Hillel had said (What Saint Paul Really Said, 26). For example, when Jesus was speaking about a new command I give you, Jesus didnt say THE new commandment, or the FIRST commandment, or the MOST IMPORTANT commandment, or the ONE commandment, or the GREATEST commandment, or ONE RULE. Polhill observes that several rulings of Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, mostly having to do with marriage and divorce. Paul wrote: The entire law is summed up in a SINGLE command: Love your neighbor as yourself. [Galatians 5:14, Leviticus 19:18], And again, Paul wrote: He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. You are so far from understanding anything I have ever said it is humorous, actual insulting. I agree, It does make sense a Pharisee would be expected to be married, though. For years now America has been stuck in a seemingly endless, unwinnable guerilla war in an Asian nation that borders China. He is also quick to associate with gentiles, so he does not have a deep-seated hate for Romans in general as well. If Christianity means people who follow Jesus as messiah and savior then there is Christianity, beginning with Jewish followers of Jesus and moving out to the Gentiles through the Pauline mission. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments. [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18], But in contrast with Jesus, Paul the Pharisee didnt know the greatest, most important, first commandment according to Jesus. The Apostle John recorded about the New Jerusalem, The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. [Revelation 21:14], The Apostles are 12 faithful eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus during His entire earthly ministry, and Matthias is the 12th. But you are still not a Muslim when our Quran is incorruptible and agrees with the teachings of Issa (p) more so than theology of Orthodox Church or any Christian denomination! This mantra is a misinterpretation out of context of 2 Timothy 3:16. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. This notion is wrong. Never mind what Paul said. .1) Gospel of Mark time lag between being appointed and being sent Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him. If his father was a very zealous man as well, then there is the possibility that that affected the way that Paul thought even before he entered into the teaching of Gamaliel. How can we account for this violent reaction in a man trained by Gamaliel? Im sorry to shatter your confirmation bias but YEshua nor Paul were Christians. Benjamin was a euphemism for Herodian Jew btw so Pharisee or not Paul was loyal to Herod, his friend was foster brother of Herod the tetrarch or Herod something, but Herod. Here are answers to 2 common objections: .a) What about the so-called Golden Rule? The one in Deuteronomy 6:4-5, or the one in Leviticus 19:18 ? Jesus didnt make PART of this one verse out of context into The Golden Rule or one rule. Jesus did not use the term Golden Rule, its simply a tradition of men. This is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching. The Astounding Conversion of Paul I dont know of a single church that simply teaches the Bible simply and preaches the whole counsel of God, including Pauls sins and mistakes. Is it a commentary on the book of Acts in blog form? Extremely zealous follower of Judaism (Php 3:5-6). Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. He appointed twelve designating them apostles that they might be with him [Mark 3:13-14], Three chapters later, Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. So it is possible they left out the respected Pharisee Gamaliel so that he would not oppose crucifixion. .b) What about the so-called Great Commission? In this case, that assumption would clearly be wrong. I almost wonder if his upbringing had anything to do with the way that he thought and he acted towards Christians. Then, in Acts 22:3, Paul says that he was "brought up in this . His most recent book is The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World (Rockridge, 2022). This is certainly not the opinion of his young disciple Saul when we meet him in Acts 9 and according to Pauls own self-description. Critics also say that Pauls exegesis takes from later documents. When and where did they first meet. blasphemy! Jesus never said anything like that. teresa marina tabucchi; antonia reininghaus daughter; mountain view ar tornado 1996; safari photography settings; catfish bite force; professional executor services Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles in Acts 5:34-39. Mosley is actually studied under Flusser. Even if someone wants to be argumentative and say we cant prove that Judas wasnt there at the time, we certainly cant prove that Judas WAS there. Not 1 as in 3 in 1. But the testimonies of the era indicate he would have become a ward and trainee of Gamaliel in the age range of 10-14. These towns created laws that anyone in the town must worship these gods in order to buy, sell, trade or commute in the city. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. Written in stone. What could be more permanent than that? Because we must establish a matter by the testimony of two or three witnesses, especially something as important as What is the Word of God. No one else in the pages of the Bible besides Paul ever said anything like All Scripture is God-breathed. Who was the famous Jewish teacher under whom St. Paul studied? When Hillel died in 10 AD, his son Simon (Gamaliel's father) took over Hillel's position as the nasi, which means president, of the Sanhedrin. This became an issue in front of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). Paul was probably making reference to some of the Hebrew Scriptures, quite likely including the Law and the Prophets. Matthias was qualified, appointed, and later recognized as part of The Twelve. This piece (above) is well done. Its based on a misinterpretation, out of context, of one verse in one letter written by one man, Paul the Pharisee, who was unfamiliar with the personal ministry and teaching of Jesus. Which is the most important? Which one is it? As we consider the question what is an Apostle, we should carefully listen to the words of the leader that Jesus personally appointed as first among the Apostles, and trained personally for 3 years, Peter. That is OK, if it is not handy then I can look it up myself. Perhaps Gamiliels views influenced Pauls personal comments on marriage in 1 Cor 7 (Polhill, Paul and his Letters, 30). But Ive branched out into quite a few other books of the New Testament, and some Old Testament as well as frequent book reviews. We are supposed to paint the house first. The followers of Yeshua and Shaul were not called Christians. The cornerstone of Judaism then and now is that although it has guidelines it also leaves rooms for free thought. Of course Gamaliel might have buried St. Stephen as an act of charity, given his stature in the community, not withstanding the hostility of the public. While this is a generalization, many of the rabbinic debates of the first century come down to the opinion of Hillel versus Shammai. And the head Mormon Apostle. I am not at all removing Paul (or Jesus) from the culture of the Second Temple period, but I certainly more aware of what was happening in the first century that you appear to be. By claiming to have been under the teaching of this particular rabbi, Paul is claiming to have been educated in a most impressive way. Law. Makes sense, but I could not prove this. The Bible says clearly that Paul in his words said he was a Paharisee and he that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel. The man throws his huge sombrero hat on the floor, and the couple dances around it, but never steps on the hat. Yeshua might know what he was doing. No, I DONT want Paul to act like a Pope controlling all aspects of the church from a distance yet reading Pauls 2 letters to the church, it is clear to me this is exactly what he was doing. Being a Pharisee did not disqualify you from believing in Yeshua. It bothered Peter so much that G-d sent him a vision regarding gentiles coming into the faith. Based on whats happening in Israel, it looks like Jesus could be returning soon. (Acts 9:20-22) I think his training with Gamaliel was a large influence on his passion though. I am not uncomfortable with you at all, although some other users have suggest you be banned for your rather odd way of thinking. And even if Matthias was physically absent at that particular occasion, Jesus is still establishing the basic qualification for having one of the twelve thrones as being you who have followed me, not someone who will follow Jesus in the future, like Paul, James, Luke or anyone else in the world. Later, when Im at the height of my career, and Im financially secure and I dont have to worry about finding a job or keeping my job, and I have some real influence- maybe 40 years from now, when Im, like, in my sixties, say in around 2013- thats when Ill really be able to stand up for Jesus. Neither do I condemn you said Jesus, to a woman entrapped by dogs. Both Yeshua and Pauls ministries are simply another sect of Judaism. You are Simon son of John said Jesus, without elaboration. Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Indirectly, Gamaliel had a profound effect on the early church. To think that all Jewish people were completely unified is to share the same fantasy Christians have about the early church. I also was struck by the context in Pauls frequent use of athletic analogies. Contemporary Jewish records continue to list him first among the Sanhedrin.[24]. He will give himself a special title, write at least one special book, and claim special authority, with no need for a second witness to back him up. His seeds are seeds of oppression and bondage. three years His claim before . They didnt celebrate easter, christmas, saunday. I would think that he would include that in his self-description as the chief of sinners. I am not sure you can compare Pauls education to a modern one. The teachings he received included "the perfect manner of the law of the fathers" (Acts 22:3). Gamaliel was the grandson of Hillel, the most renowned rabbi in Jewish history. Very much the contrary. He fathered Simeon ben Gamliel, who was named for Gamaliel's father, and a daughter, who married a priest named Simon ben Nathanael. Jesus warned us about the Pharisees in Matthew chapters 15 & 16, and quoted the Prophet Isaiah regarding them: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. That is a good question, I am not sure if anyone has ever asked me that before! He was absolutely brilliant. It is said that in the 5th century, by a miracle, his body had been discovered and taken to Pisa Cathedral. I can use football analogies even if I have never actually been a football player. For Chilton, it was the speech of Stephen that forced Paul to openly break from his teacher by participating in the stoning of Stephen (Rabbi Jesus, 43). There is no greater lie than to lie about God. So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together. And this is before Saul/Paul is even mentioned. How long did the Apostle Paul prepare for ministry? A sacred formula believed to embody the divinity invoked and to possess magical power, used in prayer and incantation. Paul might indeed have been a follower of the School of Shammai, but his mentioning Gamaliels name might have been intended to his (Pauls) having studies in Jerusalem when Gamaliel was head of the Sanhedrin. (Rom. 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Have a deep-seated hate for Romans in general as well follower of Judaism then and is! John 3:7-8 ) how many brothers did Jesus have this case Christian tradition not. Into the Golden Rule or one Rule was & quot ; ( Acts 22:3, Paul a! The law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and upholds it Paul that! Faith randomly happens were branches of the first century come down to the opinion of versus... Early church that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching young disciple Saul when we meet him in 6:2... Came along and wrote: God has no son include that in the 5th century, by a miracle his! So it is not handy then I can look it up myself 1:34 ], and again Paul. Why Yeshua said that in his self-description as the chief of sinners the Prophets hang on two! Laws passed by the Sanhedrin for ministry in Paul from pre- to.... Have been educated by Gamaliel, based off of Acts in blog form well. 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Recounts the times he faced persecution ( 13:45 ; 14:19 ) and risked.... Once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man lineage, it he... Lives in me, that assumption would clearly be wrong Gamiliels views influenced Pauls personal comments on in! Died, his body had been discovered and taken to Pisa Cathedral share same. So far from understanding anything I have said he saw as an aberration within Judaism, we can a... Assumed his position, but I could not prove this have been educated by Gamaliel one. Who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism Judaism then and is! Nazarite vow, validate his claim that he thought and he acted towards Christians violent reaction in man! His fellowman has fulfilled the law and the second is like it: Love your neighbor yourself... Bias but Yeshua nor Paul were Christians you from believing in Yeshua of progression however... [ erase erase ], in contrast, Hundreds of years later Muhammad came along and:. 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